anonymous
Registered: Sept 28, 2005
Posts: 439
| |
workingdee
Registered: Feb 23, 2010
Posts: 21
|
| | April 28, 2010 at 12:23 PM | Reply with quote | #2 |
|
She looks black to me... I do see the native indian influence in her features but I would not be shocked that she is considered a "black" model.
Ofcourse, my mindset is that black is a mixed race identity for the most part anyway. I don't see black as being equal to being 100% african.
|
| Loading... | |
anonymous
Registered: Sept 28, 2005
Posts: 439
|
| | April 28, 2010 at 12:54 PM | Reply with quote | #3 |
|
I can normally see when people are part black. but with her I actually just thought she was indian and was suprised to hear that she is half black and considered a black model. |
| Loading... | |
COFEEnCREME
Registered: April 25, 2009
Posts: 142
|
| | April 28, 2010 at 01:28 PM | Reply with quote | #4 |
|
She looks like a dark Mulatta to me with white facial features.
|
| Loading... | |
NativeAisha
Registered: Jan 14, 2010
Posts: 82
|
| | April 28, 2010 at 01:40 PM | Reply with quote | #5 |
|
| She looks part indian if you know to look beyond color.
In particular look at her eyes.
They are like the eyes seen in my family, she has the Epicanthal fold (often confused for "slit" eyes that has a different technical name) and double lid characteristic of Asians and Native Americans.
I am an example of a triracial person with recent (as well an ancient) native ancestry along many family lines.
To see more examples like this one see this thread in which I link to a exhibit by the National Museum of the American Indian and the other examples of triracial people.
I have one challenge for anyone who would say that the model above looks 100% black. What race(s) is(are) this young lady on the right? ( I have used this test before on the debate board. If you know the answer please do not tell.)
|
| Loading... | |
Splendidlyblend
Registered: Dec 09, 2009
Posts: 11
|
| | April 28, 2010 at 02:01 PM | Reply with quote | #6 |
|
She looks Black to me. I suspect that the pictures are touched up by computers and the chances is about 95% they are so there is a possibility that her African features are more prominent when you see her in person. |
| Loading... | |
workingdee
Registered: Feb 23, 2010
Posts: 21
|
| | April 28, 2010 at 03:40 PM | Reply with quote | #7 |
|
Quote: Originally Posted by NativeAisha
I have one challenge for anyone who would say that the model above looks 100% black. What race(s) is(are) this young lady on the right? ( I have used this test before on the debate board. If you know the answer please do not tell.)
As far as 100% black goes, that depends on what the individual person's definition of "black" is. I don't think there is any one specificly agreed upon defintion.
As for the little girl, she looks like she is asian, but also has the look of someone from central/south america with idigenous ancestry.
That being said, she could also have african ancestry as some of her features are quite common amongst people of african descent.
It's not an exact science. It's only an educated guess by phenotype, which can be arbitrary.
|
| Loading... | |
NativeAisha
Registered: Jan 14, 2010
Posts: 82
|
| | April 28, 2010 at 05:25 PM | Reply with quote | #8 |
|
Good. Anyone else want to guess that little girls race(s)?
|
| Loading... | |
COFEEnCREME
Registered: April 25, 2009
Posts: 142
|
| | April 28, 2010 at 06:32 PM | Reply with quote | #9 |
|
Picture looks too blurry to tell but from here she looks mostly black with possible Asian genes
|
| Loading... | |
Southerner83
Registered: April 28, 2010
Posts: 24
|
| | April 28, 2010 at 07:51 PM | Reply with quote | #10 |
|
You can detect African influence in some of those photos, but on the whole I don't think she looks black.
|
| Loading... | |
NativeAisha
Registered: Jan 14, 2010
Posts: 82
|
| | April 28, 2010 at 09:16 PM | Reply with quote | #11 |
|
Ok here's the answer. The following picture is her with her parents at her parents wedding.
Here the mother describes the families heritage.
Quote: I am Chinese (mother.s side) and Dutch-Indonesian (father.s side) and the asian culture believes red is good luck. My husband is a full blooded American Indian who comes from a well-known hereditary chief family, the Chief Burnett Clan, of the Potawatomi Indian tribe.
This website here makes it clear he is really the girls father, they just did what allot of people do these days "lived together".
In short the young lady has absolutely no black in her what so ever*. So much for guessing race based on stero uhmm I mean Phenotype.
The reason she looks so black to some of you could be lack of experience with genuinely native mixed folks. Sooo many people black and white claim it who have little to no actual native ancestry.
My point, which this example should make uncontroversial, is that guessing weather someone has native pehenotype is
a.) not a very good way to tell what race someone is.
b.) Most people have no real idea of what modern, actual Native Americans look like, and how their features turn up in mixes with different races. Thus making a guess based on looks worth even less than usual.
*I know for a fact that since the Prairie Band of the Pottwatomi moved through Missouri (in the 1830's) well after it was settled (by the US in 1805). That there is a good chance the fathers family has some black admixture. He can say he's 100% native because of the way tribes view attribution of race. He's 100% descended from people who were on a tribal roll in 1940 or 1930. If a tribe deim's one to be 100% native then they are, as far as the tribe is concerned.
|
| Loading... | |
DaTokenBlaqGuy
Registered: Jan 27, 2009
Posts: 52
|
| | April 29, 2010 at 09:12 AM | Reply with quote | #12 |
|
Anonymous, though I am not an expert at classifying people by the measurements of particular physical facial features, based on what I do know about the different 'races' or variations of one race, whichever one prefers, the young model in question appears clearly to me to be 'mixed' in some way and though I would not protest loudly if she told me she was Black I would not think of her as Black if we were face to face. In the picture were her hair is wild it appears her skin may have been bronzed either by tan, spray, cream, or just picture brushing. Then again, in the other photos she may have been lightened. Are all of these pictures of her modeling? Best way to tell for proper skin tone placement is an 'average work around the house or in the yard' picture.
Perhaps I've made a miscalculation and the debate board should return. I usually read the post on the Positive Board for stress release but since the demise of the Yang the Yin has taken on what appears to be a more debate type quality. The alignment has been thrown out of whack.
|
| Loading... | |
NativeAisha
Registered: Jan 14, 2010
Posts: 82
|
| | April 29, 2010 at 11:12 AM | Reply with quote | #13 |
|
Quote: Originally Posted by DaTokenBlaqGuy
>
Perhaps I've made a miscalculation and the debate board should return. I usually read the post on the Positive Board for stress release but since the demise of the Yang the Yin has taken on what appears to be a more debate type quality. The alignment has been thrown out of whack.
I am a theoretical physicist by training. We make our points by getting the other person to realize them by thinking about the problems from a new point of view.
All I have done here is try to insert information on just how variable a "Native American" Phenotype can look. |
| Loading... | |
COFEEnCREME
Registered: April 25, 2009
Posts: 142
|
| | April 29, 2010 at 02:46 PM | Reply with quote | #14 |
|
That little girl could very well look like that because of her Asian side NativeAisha.
|
| Loading... | |
Southerner83
Registered: April 28, 2010
Posts: 24
|
| | April 29, 2010 at 04:37 PM | Reply with quote | #15 |
|
There's a tendency for Americans of all colors to declare black anyone who looks like they have some sub-Saharan ancestry. There's nothing natural about this, though. They don't do that in Latin American countries, for example. American mulattoes have got to get away from this practice. Many of us aren't completely ambiguous looking and therefore can't meet a common standard for being declared mixed race. In order to build solidarity, the scope of what is designated "black" has to be reduced somewhat.
|
| Loading... | |
